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08 Aug 2018 06:46:01
I honestly get why people hate on Mathews the leafs are the biggest media outlet in the NHL and he's the best player in Leafs/American history yes over Modano and Gilmore. He's the best even strength goal scorer in the NHL and As a rookie he scored 40 goals ( more then McJesus ). And almost single handedly brought the leafs to the playoffs. He was on pace for 44 goals and 39 Assists last season and next season 45 goals and 50 Assists is reasonable (95) points I believe Mathews being the best player in American history is a big reason why he's overhyped. I don't think he's as good as McDavid but he's going to be Lemieux as he was to Gretzky. He'll be in McDavids shadow.

Czech had Jagar
Canada had Gretzky
Russia had Valeri Khalamarov
Finland had Temmu Selaming
Sweden had Lindstrom
USA has Mathews

Let's see what this starts also I'll add on this is Projections most analysts agree that at the end of his career he'll have more success then Gilmore and Modano the future looks bright barring an injury.

Agree0 Disagree8

08 Aug 2018 08:20:02
Lol calm down VB, give him a few more years and judge then.

08 Aug 2018 08:34:49
TSN/ Sportsnet are, yes, truly horrid. Leafs this, leafs that. For a fan of any other team, it’s annoying as all f**k. I haven’t watched either since the leafs got Tavares because I assume it’s just a 24/ 7 circle jerk. Honestly, if a network sprouted up in Winnipeg or wherever that covered every other team but the leafs, I’d watch it every. single. day. I don’t hate the leafs, I hate that they’re shoved down our throats.

As for Matthews, yeesh. Ease up.
I’m pretty sure you know you should too. While I have no evidence, I have a feeling you’re drunk. Matthews is a great player, no doubt. May very well end up being legendary too. But already putting him ahead of US hockey legends is ridiculous, and I know that you know that.

I agree with Triplets. Calm down.

08 Aug 2018 12:11:04
I guess I’m not allowed to tell you how I really feel. I thought coming from one leaf fan to another that administration would let it ride. Its time to come back down to earth. You’re the reason myself and other leaf fans get grouped in the “delusional” crowd like yourself.

08 Aug 2018 13:15:11
You’re right lol way to early to tell Mathews isn’t overrated tho he’s over hyped imo I was just saying he has the potential to get apast the Gilmore/ Madano level honesty I haven’t seen either play but. Looking at statistics and highlights and reading others opinions I believe that isn’t a to far fetched opinion. Mathews is then 2nd most hyped player in the NHL. I believe he has potential to reach the Yzerman level and in my non expert opinion i believe Yzerman was better then anyone in leafs history and Madano.

Late night post was reading a thread on HF boreds and trust me there is a lot more biased ones then me.

08 Aug 2018 15:11:18
Everyone already expressed my opinion on the matter saving me the trouble. Thanks guys. one thing I will ask is why valeri kharmalov from Russia? Yes he was really good but should someone like bure or ovechkin be there instead.

08 Aug 2018 15:27:59
Oh and can we have some more austin matthews stats please? Maybe you could tell us what his fav food is or the Tv show he's watching right now lol.

08 Aug 2018 15:57:35
Vbbb continuing on with his wild player evaluations. You need to stop making your evaluations based on playing NHL18 and try to learn something about hockey outside of Toronto.

08 Aug 2018 16:43:08
Lol. Wow.

08 Aug 2018 18:00:10
NHL 18 evaluations? Duncan Kieth has the higher overall rating I’m pretty sure. EA underates young players Brock Boeser is like 78 ovr. Haven’t played NHL 18 sense the end of the school year tho.

08 Aug 2018 18:17:13
Valery Khalamarov is one of the most idolized figures in Russia. All Russian players like Ovechkin and Malkin look up to him. In Russia they believe he’s better then Gretzky he is a national hero. Obviously here in NA we believe differently.

08 Aug 2018 19:56:55
Matthews is an elite talent 150%. He will be great.

But don’t compare him to Modano or any other USA legend atm. that's jist biased. He will be great. He is great now. But give him time before we start to crown him the ‘USA’s great one’ cause atm, that statement is complteley wild and over anyones head.

08 Aug 2018 21:34:54
if you ask vb laine is better than ovechkin. if you ask vb schiefle is the best player in the nhl.

thats all you need to know about vb.

potential means 0 until the players actually do

let matthews play a few full seasons and top 90 points a season plus for the bulk of his career before you start throwing modano and gilmour out there.

both those guys won cups btw.

08 Aug 2018 23:39:02
I live in America and as of now I have Kane way over Matthews! And plus others modano obviously! But I really like Matthews I hope he is as great as he’s supposed to be. but this is the reason we call Toronto fans out! Post about other teams for one week and see what people say maybe you have a better opinion instead of straight bias crap we see everyday.

08 Aug 2018 23:55:46
Was Modano even that dominate tho? As far as I know he was a star but on a Stamkos/ Tavares level did he ever win a cup? Is it just me or is his legacy not unreal. If Mathews wins a cup or two while consistently leading the leafs you’d think that he gets to that level. America hasn’t gotten many superstars until recently.

09 Aug 2018 00:04:23
Just because I wouldn’t trade Liane for Ovie in a fantasy keeper league dosent mean I think he’s the better player he’s 10 years younger I’d be a person to make that trade. And Schifele is a great fantasy player I didn’t want to trade him either his teams on the uprise.

09 Aug 2018 00:10:11
How come Lafontaine never gets mentioned in "Greatest Americans".
I'd say Kane probably has the title. but, Pat Lafontaine was pretty damn good., Brian Leetch was another.
Mathews is going to be in this class soon enough, and probably will surpass everyone and become greatest American. but. like some have said
. let's let him earn it. also, maybe this Hughes kid may have something to say about it. wouldn't it be something if Habs get him. lol. good chance, looking at the current roster. I believe Habs are a Carey Price injury away from having best Odds in the game to get him. and. well, as we all know. it's very possible that may happen.

09 Aug 2018 05:54:03
That’d be cool if Montreal got hughs. Colorado probably has him tho lol.

09 Aug 2018 18:57:07
Modano did win a cup with the stars in 99.

BUT Patrick Kane wth an Art Ross, Ted Lindsay Award, Hart Trophy (1st American to win it), 3 cups, Conn Smythe, Olympic medals (silver, but still) and Calder Trophy. Point per game playoff numbers, 50 playoff goals, a bunch of playoff GWGs including 4-5 series clinching ones and of course the OT winner for the Stanley Cup. Greatness comes from the biggest moments and he’s the ultimate big game player of a generation for me.

And had all that at 27 years old. Still under 30 now. He is the guy to beat for greatest American player in my eyes.

09 Aug 2018 20:20:38
I think Mathews can beat Kane.

10 Aug 2018 00:14:54
See vbbb that last statement was better. You think matthews can beat Kane. I take that as you mean someday he will better then Kane. Which is perfectly fine. its when you say stuff like he's better then gilmour or modano right now is what gets to people.

10 Aug 2018 00:31:44
It’s possible, but that’s why I said “he’s the one to beat”. As far as I’m concerned, no American has that type of a resume and certainly not by his age.

Without any major injuries, and the style Kane plays, I don’t see any reason he can’t be a productive player till he’s 35 or 36 years old. So he accomplished all that in the first half of a career. Pretty damn impressive. I doubt his second half will be as productive, but could still collect a cpl more awards and will keep piling up points.

10 Aug 2018 00:40:35
We know you do vbb’s. Let’s just hope for a decent playoff run for now.

10 Aug 2018 20:09:01
If he has more cups than Kane, I don’t care if he ever wins an individual award lol both would be incredible but that’s a steep climb.

07 Aug 2018 19:59:59
Montreal's lines

1 domi hudon Gallagher
2 lekthonen drouin sherbak
3 byron peca armia
4 deslauriers plekanec McCarron

1 rielly Weber
2 alzner petry
3 mete juulsen


Thoughts on these lines. Have I forgot anyone?

Agree0 Disagree5

07 Aug 2018 20:13:03
Yah you forgot Price and Patches. the defense is meh but those forwards are disgusting.

07 Aug 2018 21:04:16
Tkachuk-Duchene-Stone
White-Pageau-Gaborik
Boedeker-Dizingel-Ryan
Pyatt-Smith-Paajarvi

Chabot-Karlsson
Wideman-Ceci
Borowiecki-Harpur

Anderson
Condon

What teams better?

07 Aug 2018 21:59:02
Danault, Shaw, Armia, goalies are pretty obvious. and good job at assuming Patches is gone, lol.

Ottawa looks better at this point i think : (.

07 Aug 2018 22:06:59
This habs lineup looks better then the one they had the last time they made it to the conference finals. I sure hope that's not the case this year. Patches and Dela rose wil probably be in mccarron will probably be lost on waivers before the season starts. alzner will probably start with juulsen as that's the way last year ended. oh and daneult will be starting as at least the 3rd line center.

So as it stands
Domi drouin patch
Lehkonen daneult Gallagher
Byron peca armia
Deslauriers plekanec shaw
De la rose scherbak

Weber mete
Petry schlmko
Juulsen alzner
Benn reily

Price niemi.

07 Aug 2018 23:20:34
Ottawa looks better.

07 Aug 2018 23:47:21
Ottawa dosent have Price tho. Montreal should trade him and Weber and do a proper rebuild.

08 Aug 2018 16:22:49
Leafs don't have price either. What's your point?

08 Aug 2018 16:50:49
Habs can't trade price and weber. nobody will take them with those contracts. Maybe Weber if we retain on his salary, but I think we are in trouble for the next 8 years with Price.

08 Aug 2018 17:32:32
I agree Ottawa looks better 😂

I didn't put shaw because he's injured but I did forget danault.

08 Aug 2018 18:06:52
Well Toronto is a little bit better then Ottawa trying not to be Biased. I believe that Toronto has atleast an equal roster to Montreal and in my opinion Toronto is a lot better. But all I’m saying is Price is the best goalie in the NHL recent statistics might say otherwise but I believe he is. Price can win games by himself while Craig Anderson can’t. That’s my point.

08 Aug 2018 22:20:10
Craig anderson has shown for long stretches in his career that he's capable of providing above average goaltending too.

08 Aug 2018 23:59:10
Price is a top 3 goalie. Anderson is bottom 20-30.

07 Aug 2018 02:07:51
Everyone needs to get off the Karlson getting traded band wagon. Heres my thoughts. Erik Karlsson is an expiring contract #1after this coming season. Ottawa obviously wants to hit a home run of him as they HAVE to to not suck for the next 10 years. No team is currently willing to give up IMO what OTTAWA wants for Karlson which will BE MINIMUM
A First rd pick, 2nd Round . blue chip prospect on a entry level. +A decent roster with some salary player For Karlson+Boby Ryan

or 2 firsts a 2nd, Mid level prospect And a decent roster player.

bottom line lots of teams are thinking ottawa wants way to much for a player just coming off ankle injury ,drama in the locker room. On an expiring contract.

If i'm a outsider GM heres my thoughts. They just moved hoffman so they're not super mptivated to move him just yet. Wait until the trade deadline. They should become more desperate in fear of losing him for nothing. pruce will drop ALOT. You also get to see if he can stay healthy for the first bit of the season before you aquire him for the playoff. My thinking is he's just not a 28 minute guy. he needs to be no more then 20 minutes and I beleive his durability would sky rocket.

So in closing Karllsonn will NOT be traded atleast until the trade deadline mid season.

Agree0 Disagree9

07 Aug 2018 16:51:09
Karlsson playing no more then 20 minuets? You think Rasmus Ristolianen should play 27 and Ron Hanisey should play more then Karlsson? That’s 1 injury he’s still great and a top 3 dman in the nhl.

07 Aug 2018 18:03:55
Makes some valid points but the minutes thing is laughable. Why pay the price for a superstar like Karlsson to use him like a 2nd pair guy?! The whole point of getting these workhorse guys is to be able to throw them over the boards for a regular shift against top lines, plus use him on the power play and a lot of times on the PK. That’s what separates legit #1 Dmen from just good ones that can play on a top pair. No way you can do all that while having him play 1/ 3 of the game or less.

08 Aug 2018 02:56:34
Might be some merit to playing him less. Byfuglien isn't in the same class as karlsson but he did more with less ice time. But that was 30 minutes to 25 or something. You can't have karlsson sitting for 2/ 3 of the game.

06 Aug 2018 20:05:47
So nhl.com just released there top 20 center list this is what it was.
1. Connor McDavid
2. Sydney Crosby
3. Evegini Malkin
4. Austin Mathews
5. Nathen Mackinnon
6. Anze Kopitar
7. Mark Schifele
8. Patrice Bergeron
9. Tyler Seguin
10. John Tavares
11. Steven Stamkos
12. Evegny Kuznetzkov
13. Aleksander Barkov
14. Nicklas Backstrom
15. Jack Eichel
16. Mathew Barzel
17. William Karlsson
18. Sean Coutorier
19. Ryan Getzlaf
20. Leon Draistle

Maybe you guys should see Mathews play again.

Agree1 Disagree11

06 Aug 2018 20:12:52
I bet you don't like that part about seguin being better then tavares though lol.

06 Aug 2018 20:14:57
I'd have matthews at 8th and tavares at 9 but overall it isn't bad compared to some of the lists the co called experts make.

06 Aug 2018 20:37:44
They base there list a lot on what they project a players point totals will be this year. I guess they think matthews is going to get 100 pts this year. he may but I'm not betting on that. If it was based on last year which they say is the other criteria for the list mackinnon would be number 2.

06 Aug 2018 21:31:50
No I don’t mind that actually it’s opinion really 1 place apart Seguin is faster and it’s a speed game Tavares has better puck control but is slower. Pretty even players play a different style tho.

06 Aug 2018 21:36:12
Also Habby this wasn’t really directed towards you it was just a point showing others agree with my opinion that Mathews> Tavares.

06 Aug 2018 22:30:56
im a leaf fan, sequin should be above taveres. matthews shouldn't be 4th. all you need to know is nhl. com is an american run site that offer next to nothing in terms of accurate projections. because that's just it, a guessing game. no one on the planet pegged wild bill karlson to score 40 plus. no one.

espn and nhl. com are the furthest thing reliable information other than previouvly recorded statistics.

americans reporting on hockey. pffffttt.

07 Aug 2018 01:17:11
It was maid by nhl scouts and respected people within the NHL. Also yah no I agree 100% with you Americans no nothing about hockey Mathews, Modano, Hull, Kane, ETC you’re 100% right they know nothing. But I agree with ESPN that’s a complete joke. Also Seguin is over Tavares.

07 Aug 2018 05:19:08
Brett Hull is Canadian with dual citizenship, like Parise or Stastny. But yes you’re right, there is plenty of great ‘Merican hockey players arguably right up there with Canada with young skilled guys.

07 Aug 2018 07:02:38
Matthews is just a bad joke. Incredible how overhyped he is.

07 Aug 2018 11:34:20
Didn’t see Point on that list triplets.

07 Aug 2018 12:06:26
I apologize, they have Point on the bubble of making the list. They must have made a mistake and meant to put him in the top 10. You’re right, that is a bad joke.

07 Aug 2018 13:03:57
So damn bitter. Lol I love stamkos, but Matthews first 2 years points and goals are very similar between the 2 players (Matthews more consistently 40 + 34 and stamkos 23+51) Matthews played 17 less games in those 2 seasons. Was a +27 vs stammers -17 And went to the playoffs both years which stamkos hadn’t seen yet st this point in his career. Not shots at stamkos, he’s sick and one of my favs. Wanted him to sign here obviously. But to call matthews overhyped seems off. Because he’s, atleast on pace, to out produce stamkos. That deserves a lot of hype.

07 Aug 2018 14:41:34
Check out stamkos stats as a19 and 20 year old like matthews.

07 Aug 2018 15:17:58
You just said that we shouldn't judge marner by the fact that the leafs didn't make it to the second round that his playoffs weren't unimpressive. And the next thing it is that Matthews has made it twice whereas stamkos hadn't. Make up your mind and quit switching based on which helps a leaf look better.

07 Aug 2018 15:29:38
Perfectly said Alpaca.

07 Aug 2018 16:07:12
Where is Drouin? Or Danault?
List is garbage if they aren't on there.

In all seriousness. I like to think who would I want in my Game 7 Stanley Cup final. Bergeron would he higher. as would Tavares, . Mathews may get there. but he isn't top 4 yet., and If I had to pick a center not named McDavid. to build a team around. it would be MacKinnon. . he will be the more rounded player, as well as I see him as more of a leader.

07 Aug 2018 16:54:27
Don’t listen to Drais he thinks Tyler Johnson is Mathews Tier and Points better then Tavares.

07 Aug 2018 17:22:06
Yes Sosa that's a big factor in my decision when considering the best players. I go a bit further and ask myself who would I want on my team in a 7 game series but still the same premise. overall right now I have mcdavid mackinnon scheifle crosby malkin kopitar bergeron all ahead of matthews and barkov stamkos tavares all slightly ahead. So maybe I have him 11th now that I really think about but him and tavares is really a toss up.

07 Aug 2018 17:42:36
What has Point to do with Matthews? I said Matthews doesn't deserve to be 4th, an opinion which should be shared by anyone in their right minds. I didn't say he doesn't belong on the list at all or Point should be ahead of him or anything. Simply said 4th is too high.

I also don't see how the Stamkos comparison makes sense. You also discredited yourself by using plus minus and "making the playoffs" as criteria which is as much a team stat as it gets. The list is about who are the best Cs right now, so it compared Stamkos at 28yo to Matthews at almost 21yo. Yes, I would probably put Stamkos ahead of Matthews right now. But I'd also put Tavares ahead of Matthews as well as Kopitar and Barkov.

Don't get me wrong, Matthews is good, very good. Franchise player. But Leafs media and Leafs fans act like he's on McDavid's or Crosby's level which he clearly isn't.

07 Aug 2018 18:19:20
When did I say don’t judge marner?! They said kucherov had good playoff stats as a 21 year old and I said Marner had 9 pts in 7 games. The fact that leafs didn’t advance so we couldn't see if he would keep that production up over more games is what I said. Kuch had 22 pts in 26 games, marner had 9 in 7. Both very impressive. But hard to compare without similar game totals.

I said if Matthews ends up as good as stamkos, I’d be happy lol if you want to take that as anything but a compliment, go ahead.

07 Aug 2018 19:27:16
You obviously haven’t seen Mathews play if you believe Tavares is anywhere near Mathews he’s atleast 2 tiers below him same with Barkov and Stamkos. You can make an argument for Kopitar tho.

07 Aug 2018 19:53:21
You can easily make an argument for all of them vbbb just it's a bit harder when your arguing with bias people.

07 Aug 2018 20:32:55
Nowhere did you say Matthews doesn’t belong 4th triplets. I believe you said he was like a bad joke. Had you said he doesn’t belong 4th I would have agreed with you, at the moment. Instead you’re ignorant and uneducated and very bitter in most of your posts. Regardless, at least some of us leaf fans can see the talent on other teams. I think Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman are absolute studs. Yet you think every leaf player is overhyped. Sorry guys but leaf fans finally have a team to be excited about, suck it.

08 Aug 2018 00:24:35
Mathews at 4 is high. Comparing him to Stamkos first 2 years is a little bit of a misnomer because in Stamkos rookie season the coach didn't want him on the team. He was getting scratched, 4th line minutes, no pp, while Mathews was put in a spot to succeed right away. That is why the difference between Stamkos first and second season is so big, he took off mid way through his first season when Melrose was fired and new coach helped him build his confidence. Both deserve to be on the list, I tend to compare Tavares and Stamkos as similar talent level, around that 10 level. Mathews is high on this list, his age likely influencing it a bit even though it shouldn't, and because of his hype. I wouldn't say, at this point, that Mathews is head and shoulders above Tavares and Stamkos, would be willing to consider around their level, but would take some convincing for me to believe he is "one or two tiers above"

08 Aug 2018 01:26:27
And i compared their first 2 seasons in the NHL. They both came in the October after they were drafted. If you want to start splitting it into months they were born go ahead. Then you can look at Auston Matthews 17.5-18.5 age season wear he was playing Pro Hockey already in the Swiss League and was runner up for MVP with 24g22a for 46pts in 36 games (1.27 pts per game) Now knowing that your next arguements is that the Swiss league is a garbage league, 26 year old joe Thornton had 54 pts in 40 games (1.35pts per game) playing on a line with 20 year old Rick Nash who had 47 pts in 44 games (1.07 pts per game) . I call that impressive for a 17 year old, but I’m sure you don’t.

08 Aug 2018 04:22:14
Should be:

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin
MacKinnon
Kopitar
Schiefle
Backstrom
Tavares
Seguin
Bergeron
Kuznetsov
Barkov
Barzal
Matthews
Getzlaf
Eichel
Karlsson
Couturier
Monahan
Draisaitl

Matthews is too overhyped

08 Aug 2018 05:38:10
Stamkos’ first seasons don’t even matter on this list do they? Kind of an irrelevant argument. But I also think Matthews is a bit high. It’s a pretty hard or even impossible list to make. But if age and potential are taken into account he should be high. If his past season comes into account he should also be fairly high. But I have a hard time putting him in front of guys like MacKinnon or Schiefele or vets like Kopitar at the point.

08 Aug 2018 05:52:30
Victor stalberg remember him? He had 50 points in the same Swiss league last year soooooooo what's your point lol. This is too easy lol.

08 Aug 2018 07:11:57
Now that’s a reasonable response JBS, Billy and ebs. It makes for good hockey talk when I don’t have to tell people to suck it. I’m sure Matthews true value lies somewhere between what SOME leaf fans think, what analysts think and what people that hate everything Toronto think. Habby and Jim I’ve respected you guys for a long time but you sound like 12 year olds with the my daddy can beat up your daddy crap. Get over it!

08 Aug 2018 08:28:38
Lol dude, what is your problem? I said Matthews' (placement on the list) is a bad joke. As you can see in my last post, I acknowledge that he's a great player, just not as great as Leafs fans + media think he is: "Don't get me wrong, Matthews is good, very good. Franchise player. But Leafs media and Leafs fans act like he's on McDavid's or Crosby's level which he clearly isn't. "

All I meant to say was that he def shouldn't be in 4th place right now. And VB saying Matthews is 1-2 TIERS above Tavares and Stamkos right now is just literally proving my "overhyped" point.

Also interesting how you say I said "every leafs player is overhyped". Matthews is literally the only guy on the Leafs I called overhyped, so much for who's uneducated, ignorant and bitter, lol.

Also, I second everything jbs said about Stamkos rookie season, which is - as Ebs said - not a valid point in this argument anyways.

08 Aug 2018 08:44:10
I was fairly on board with Billy’s list until Barzal appeared. How is he even on the list? Awesome rookie season but he’s proven nothing. Even if it’s ranking the names from the original list, Matthews is above him. Eichel is above him. Couturier is definitely above him. I picked up Karlsson on free agency early in the year and he destroyed for my fantasy league but he has ZERO place on a top-20 C’s lisf. I see him getting a big contract and then 15 goals and 30 assists next season max. Not saying it was a fluke, I’m saying it was the magic of Vegas’s inaugural season. Everyone on that team killed and I see them sliding faaaar down the rankings this season, probably missing the playoffs by a hair.

Rant rant rant.
Done.

08 Aug 2018 14:07:26
Mackinnon is sick and going to be a superstar for a while but it took him 5 years to get past 63 points. Matthews did that in his 2nd year while playing 20 less games and had more pts in his first year. So this might not be a ‘potential and futures’ list, but if Mack is top 4 like some of you guys have suggested, then this is just a ‘who was the best centres of 2017/ 18’ list. Either way, don’t see anyone ever agreeing.

08 Aug 2018 18:30:33
I’m guessing that’s what it is jim otherwise why would Karlsson and Barzal be on the list. Honestly it’s a dumb list. Technically speaking Getzlaf could have easily been above Matthews but no way would I ever take him over Matthews on my team.

08 Aug 2018 19:59:32
Y’all are crazy.

We all know that the true goat, the true franchise player, the rrue top ten player, is. Bryan Little.

08 Aug 2018 20:22:58
@ebs, that’s possible, you’re probably right. Just if it is actually only for last year, Nate should be right behind Mcdavid and he’s not. Lol I don’t know. If it’s just based on last season, then they should take everyone’s points per game and that’s the base of your list, then maybe alter a guy or two for other reasons (support, defensive contributions etc) . If the list is just last seasons, then it should say that, or prediction for next season or for future going forward. If it’s going forward I take mcdavid 1, matthews 2, mackinnon And scheifele very close 3’s and depending on matthews next contract, mackinnon and scheifele in the $6 mill range could be a better choice to start a team with than anyone.

08 Aug 2018 21:14:07
Is that what it is, a list based off next years predictions? Lol cause that would make it a lot better list. Karlsson and Getzlaf shouldn’t be that high still. Also think Malkin is going to start getting passed over by younger guys.

08 Aug 2018 22:23:31
The two factors which were used in determining the list were as I stated earlier. Last years production and what the 3 guys who made the list project as the production this season. So as I said before they must be projecting matthews to have close to a 100 points this year and if he does he will deserve the 4th spot and posdibly even higher.

08 Aug 2018 23:47:22
I don’t know about 100 pts because there’s lots of players that will spread the offense out but wouldn’t really surprise me either. But healthy I would be shocked if he doesn’t have 85.

The last cpl years Kadri has given teams another threat to worry about but never really enough to pull the toughest matchups away from Matthews, more the other way which is why Kadri broke out when Matthews showed up.

But this year with JT, you would assume there will be atleast some time that Matthews is away from shut down lines and top pair. Can’t see how his numbers get any worse than last year which were like 84 pt pace.

08 Aug 2018 23:50:24
I think y’all forgot about Eric staal and last season!

09 Aug 2018 08:11:20
The official nhl. com list is called Top 20 centers RIGHT NOW.

06 Aug 2018 18:53:50
Value of Jonathan Ericsson:

Now: 2 years at 4.25 mill

or

One year later: 1 year at 4.25 Mill

A serviceable D-man who may do well with change of scenery. Most likely will be a depth veteran playing as the #4-6 Dman depending on that teams depth.

I personally think a comparable could be Alexi Emelin, veteran who is good depth piece but can't handle too many minutes. Just a nice addition to strengthen a up team's blue line.

What would get the better return in picks/prospects?

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06 Aug 2018 22:32:09
you can have the highest of hopes for ericson returning high. all i will say is paul gaustad.

sometimes gms go crazy.

07 Aug 2018 13:05:43
@ovie, that Gaistad one was bad lol but it was a while ago and picks and prospect were thrown around a lot more liberally back then.

08 Aug 2018 22:01:15
for sure, but even look at the deals last few years, good returns for marginal players and marginal returns for good players. stastny tatar nash kane. not saying ericson is on their trade value level but tatar and nash aren't anything special.

08 Aug 2018 23:56:10
Yeah true. Really hard to know. That Tatar one is tough too lol he was scratched in the playoffs multiple times.

10 Aug 2018 00:36:16
Okay, he wasn’t scratched in the playoffs lol.

10 Aug 2018 15:09:24
He actually was scratched in the playoffs, was he not?

11 Aug 2018 03:49:14
Yes. Just people apparently don’t agree lol.

11 Aug 2018 03:51:34
He was scratched 12 of 20 games. He was taken out for Ryan Reeves, then got back in for a bit when someone got hurt and then taken back out.

11 Aug 2018 04:49:45
Yeah I thought so.

06 Aug 2018 18:49:02
Hey, Been awhile since I was on this page but have occasionally kept up with the trade posts.

Being a Wings fan has been pretty good since the Draft by snagging Zadina and Veleno.

Just curious what the value is of some pending UFAs are that we have expiring this year.

Forwards:

Nyquist
Vanek
Frk
Witkowski

Defense:
Kronwall
Jensen

Goalie:
Howard

Please comment what you think value of these guys are either before this season or at deadline.

Looking for picks/prospects as the return or an equal level player as last resort.

Agree0 Disagree0

06 Aug 2018 16:02:02
I think it was VD that posted that Marner is better at 21 than Kuch was so I just want to clarify. In his age 21 season Kuch had 29 goals and 65 points. That was his fist full season and its 7 more goals and 3 less points than Marner last year with solid D. So Marner can definitely be on track to develop into Kucherov type in points but he wasnt run away better at the same age.

Agree8 Disagree1

06 Aug 2018 17:21:13
Ohh yes obviously if Marner developed into as good as Kucherov thated be great it’s obviously possible he’s better and it’s possible that he gets in a car accident and never plays again anything can happen but if he got to that level it wouldn’t surprise me. He always reminded me of Kane.

06 Aug 2018 17:39:33
Kuch also played 1.30 per game less that year.

06 Aug 2018 17:43:36
And also had a huge playoff for tampa that year.

06 Aug 2018 19:54:42
Marner was the best player for the leafs in the playoffs.

06 Aug 2018 19:57:40
Marner has 9 pts in 7 games for the leafs thins past playoffs and Bruce Cassidy said he was the hardest player to coach against. Just because leafs didn’t advance as a whole, I wouldn’t say marners playoff wasn’t impressive too.

06 Aug 2018 20:39:48
The hardest player to coach against on the leafs. He was the only one that showed up for a lot of the series of course he was the hardest to coach against lol.

06 Aug 2018 20:56:35
Holy sh*t you guys are annoying. Let it go habby. What colour is the sky.?

06 Aug 2018 21:19:14
What in this post has you upset now habby? JBS made his point, vbb’s says he hopes Marner turns into a Kucherov and Jim states the obvious that Marner had an impressive playoff. Yet you still want to bash the leafs and mock Jim. I really hope Montreal can get their sh*t together so you cheer up a little and not be so negative.

06 Aug 2018 21:46:11
Depends on if it's cloudy or not lol.

07 Aug 2018 00:44:37
You don't hope that leafs17 lol.

07 Aug 2018 22:31:29
I do hope Montreal improves. I personally like to see Canadian teams do well. I’m sorry that you have become a Tampa fan.

05 Aug 2018 05:20:01
Tor - Matthews, Tavares, Kadri

Mon - daneault, domi, 3rd

This trade helps both teams because as Sosa says and Habby agrees, Centre depth is a curse, not a gift. So leafs shed themselves of that problem.

Then habs can flip 2 of those 3 (because having more than one good Centre is a massive problem and a guarantee you never win) for more pieces to fill out their roster

Domi will now be called ‘baggage’ and that 1st rounder will be ‘spare parts’. Matthews will go from a guy not nearly as good as Eichel or laine to the best player in the world leaving mcdavid in his dust because that’s what happens when players are traded to and from Montreal.

Both teams are now mediocre again. Problem solved.

Agree8 Disagree12

05 Aug 2018 05:25:54
See jim I knew you wanted domi. Lol but even with this trade the leafs have so much depth they probably still go 79 and 3. Jim fights back the only way he knows how with another childish post. Mommy mommy people are disagreeing with me again.

05 Aug 2018 16:13:25
Lol. Jim. I never said that. I jus said maybe upgrade the D. and if Mathews was the guy to move., Imgine what you could get.
Anyway. get over yourself. Lol.
I would actually like to see the Leafs win. Its jus guys like you that make me root against em. So go plan your parade.

05 Aug 2018 16:50:35
Yah it’s just super far fetched to trade a 20 year old super star with no contract disputes on a successful team. I don’t think Mathews reached his full potential yet and I do think he’ll be the greatest player to wear a leafs jersey sense the original 6. Gilmore and Sundin were great ( I never seen them play ) but I feel like Mathews legacy will be much brighter I’m confident the leafs have the ability to end the cup drought with this group of player. The leafs should prioritize on drafting a dman. And if the opportunity comes to upgrade Rielly with Nylander the leafs should take it but otherwise they should stick to the plan.

05 Aug 2018 16:51:47
Lol Sosa you can say whatever you like about other teams on here but if you express an idea about the leafs or just give an opinion on trading someone it just eats jim up. i do it sometimes just for fun lol cause I know it's going to get to him and he just can't resist saying something like this back. i mean I had no problem listening to trade proposals on here about carey price even when he was winning the vezina and hart trophys but I can see why he would be so dumbfounded by anyone even thinking such nonsense about matthews cause he has done so much more then that (sarcasm of course) lol.

05 Aug 2018 17:24:23
Jim is such a baby! Cry about the leafs some more bud everyone is smart enough to know that defense is so bad ya can’t win! Just keep crying on here though it actually is something to laugh at so thanks!

05 Aug 2018 17:32:15
Oh and VB. your team isn't successful. maybe one day.
AndI agree Mathews trade would probably never happen. however, I jus see this team atm, as a possible cup winner. no sold yet. but trade Mathews, and get say. . OEL. and I bet some add ins. now ya have a Superstar Center. a Real number 1 D. a B+ Goalie. still have Kadri. Marner. Nylander. and Reilly ect.
But for now. the other team in Division who wears Blue and White. got more Superior. in the West. Jets., Preds. maybe Blues. superior.
Hats off. your team is a lot better than mine. good luck. hope ya he a parade.
If no for the Blue and White. sure you and Jim can throw in some rainbow shirts and fit right on another one.

05 Aug 2018 17:45:31
Sorry VB. if you didn't see Sundin play your to young for the Rainbow shirts comment. honestly. sorry.
Anyway., he was really good., but for me the most impressive player was Gilmour. and Wendel Clark. Andreychuck. that was a fun team to watch. if ya get a chance to see some, or look up some old games. do it. especially the series vs Gretzky and the Kings in 93.

05 Aug 2018 18:02:27
Take out Tavares and it's closer.


Gilmour was my favorite player growing up. I had a Gilmour-Sundin-Potvin poster on my wall. I want to a summer hockey school in the Okanagan and instead of getting my last name and a number on the back I got 93 Gilmour. I actually still have my tiny little Leafs Gilmour jersey in my closet with my jersey collection.
But my team was still the Oilers always. Loved Gilmour tho.

05 Aug 2018 18:04:52
I’d lose faith in the leafs manegment if the Leafs Traded Mathews for a subpar 1d in OEL and Keller. I’d rather see the leafs make the playoffs ( which I believe is sucseful. )
And Mathews score a 100 Points per season then the leafs win 10 consecutive cups with OEL which he wouldn’t because he can’t even bring his team to the playoffs.

05 Aug 2018 18:24:34
100 points per season let's wait till he reaches 70 first. saku koivu was leading the league in scoring when he got injured in his 2nd year. We all saw multiple art ross trophys in his future too. And we all know how that turned out.

05 Aug 2018 22:17:21
Saku was still a great player but not even in the same Catagory as Mathews. Mathews is way more hyped than Saku koivu ever was. Mathews is number one picked and is expected to be the 2nd to best player of this generation. Koivu is Nylander tier imo.

Mathews to Yzerman is a good comparison.

05 Aug 2018 23:09:41
Also Mathews was on pace for 44 goals and 83 pts last season.

06 Aug 2018 00:12:26
Ya, that's a good comparison VB.

Habby, . I remember that season with Saku. he jus never was the same offensive player ever after that was he. kinda seemed like the start of the injuries he seemed to get. , not saying he woulda been a Matthews type. but coulda been a Hall of Famer if injuries and Cancer wouldn't have derailed him so much.

06 Aug 2018 00:16:15
I'm just going to say vb that saying he has no contract disputes is a bit rich. He signed a max entry level there was nothing to dispute. I don't think Toronto will have a problem but there hasn't been an opportunity yet.

06 Aug 2018 01:08:07
It wasn't meant as a comparison of players it was meant to show high expectations of players are very rarely met. Yes it happens but more often then not it doesn't.

06 Aug 2018 03:35:51
@ TheBlackAlpaca yes but as of now there is no dispute but yes there could be but Mathews is the type of player that you try to negotiate with but if you can’t you hand him a blank check. Similar to Liane in your case as a jets fan.

06 Aug 2018 05:16:03
I agree you sign him however you have too. but you can't put it out there as a reason to have a high ask/ not trade that he's a player that's never had a contact dispute when he literally never could.

06 Aug 2018 20:34:37
Yeah Habby, I’m the first guy to write a sarcastic trade post lol and all those things in there were said.

Also again you’re now comparing the absurdity of trading a 20 year old 40 goal scoring centerman still with a year of ELC to trading a 31 year old former Vezina winning goalie who hasn’t been healthy in 2 years and hasn’t even started an 8 year $84 million dollar contract. Lol

And it really doesn’t bother me. I respond because the site is entertaining and I go on when I have time, usually while traveling. Not because I have to lol I found it funny that you’re so sarcastic all the time and I put up a joke post and then never looked for a day and see the reaction from you and Sosa. Who can’t help themselves? Lol.

06 Aug 2018 20:47:06
Yes jim to be honest we are no better then you we can be sarcastic too . We can also be bias hey were human beings. But I'm sure Sosa would agree with me that we can admit we are bias . What about you jim? Could you admit that?

06 Aug 2018 23:48:20
Again you avoid the fact that you compared trading Matthews to trading Price, which anyone but you can see is rediculous.

I will give an honest evaluation of any player regardless of team. If you don’t like it, so be it. But as soon as you made that comparison, what you think didn’t matter to me anyway.

We have argued before and I still can agree with you when you say something, not always, but sometimes. But you are just being a clown disagreeing with everything I say even when it’s absolute fact.

07 Aug 2018 05:40:58
Absolute fact lol why is that cause you said so?

07 Aug 2018 05:51:03
Ok jim stamkos scored 50 as a 19 year old but you guys talk about matthews as it he's gaurenteed to be better then him. What makes you think that? I mean I wouldn't be suprised if someday he is but I'm not going to bet any money on it from what I've seen so far.

07 Aug 2018 13:44:22
I have never gamuaratees Matthews is better than stamkos lol not once. But I’ll play.

Matthews had 40g then 34g in 62 games. That’s very consistenent. Stamkos has 23 and then 51 which is insanely good. Matthews did it with Connor brown and Zach Hyman (who you said is a worse player than Andrew shaw) in year 1. And Nylander and Hyman in year 2. Stamkos had hall of fame set up man St. Louis teeing him up on the PP for a ton of those goals.

since coming in the league Matthews has the most 5v5 goals at 61 (142 games) Ovie is 2nd at 58 (163 games) and Laine 3rd at 51 (151games) They also scored those goals playing wing which (unless you disagree) have less responsibility on the other side of the puck than a Centreman.

If Matthews has the career stamkos has had (hopefully has a cup by age 28, and can hopefully stay healthier) I’d be very happy. But he has shown he is capable of maybe out performing him.

If you want to fight me on everything I say, you’re welcome to. But if the hill you want to battle on is ‘Austin Matthews isn’t very good’, that just shows you’re spewing BS and so petty. So go ahead lol Any hockey fan, and actually anyone that can analyze numbers can see he’s a very good player.

07 Aug 2018 15:16:13
I've always said he's a real good player I've even said it on here several times so please don't start with the B. S again. But with regards to stamkos wouldn't it be more fair to him to compare his 2nd. And 3rd year with matthews as that would make them closer to the same age. Or better yet compare the production both have had before the age of 21 which matthews will be before the season starts. But anyway I've said that I consider matthews to be in the top 10 centers in the league it's hard to argue a point with people who think he is top 2. If he comes back and dominates this year I'm sure he will move up my list but as of now he's just in the top 10 and and much closer to 10th then 2nd.

07 Aug 2018 15:46:57
Also jim what difference does it make who your line mates are? I mean you refused to give pacioretty any extra credit for having multiple 30+ goal seasons with david desharnais as his center, are you saying desharnais is better then nylander? lol come on man if it's a legit argument for one it's got to be the same for everyone.

07 Aug 2018 17:19:45
Patches and Skinner are both players who don’t really use there linemates they score off the rush ( he may be the best in the League up with Kucherov at that ability ) where as Stamkos is a trigger man like Ovechkin. St. Louis would carry it in then give him a 1 timer pass. At that he was 2nd in the NHL behind Ovie now behind Liane also. Sense last season he changed his style into more of a playmaker but is still much better on the PP then Mathews. To get to Stamkos’s old form he’d need to be paired with a player like Paniran. Mathews is much different type of player he is more of a two way presance and plays a similar style to Datsyuk but on top of that he debatably has the best release in the game with the likes of Kucherov and Patches. As Jim said he’s the best 5 v 5 scorer in the game and right now he’s terrible on the PP and if he or Babcock ever learns how to utilize his skills on the PP watch for consistent 50+ goal seasons.

08 Aug 2018 00:00:28
“ I said if Matthews has the career stamkos has, I’d be very happy”. Exact quote. How is that an insult to stamkos, or the lightning, or an inflation to Matthews lol you’re an person. You’re just a very ‘unhabby person’ (trademark 2018, people who are so upset by the state of the Montreal’s candadiens that they need to relentlessly People know they’re displeasure with the world around them at every turn. Typically point their anger at leaf fans. Recommended treatment is therapy. It’s just a game) lol.

08 Aug 2018 05:55:38
Hahaha this is really getting to you hey? I couldn't care less if the California golden seals win the cup lol. Just change your name to something without unbiased in it and call it a day.

08 Aug 2018 14:57:33
I already said you win Habby. You’re right. I was wrong on everything.

08 Aug 2018 14:57:44
You can drop it now. I have.

08 Aug 2018 15:31:20
Oh you have? I'll believe it when I see it.

08 Aug 2018 15:31:47
You going to change that username?

04 Aug 2018 01:23:03
Hey unbiasedjim when do you think Toronto will win it's next cup? I'm just wondering cause I think Tampa will win the division for awhile!. stamkos > Tavares kuch > anyone on the leafs!

Agree15 Disagree2

04 Aug 2018 01:52:05
Oh and I forgot to add the laughable defense players!

04 Aug 2018 01:57:17
I know this is an attempt to troll but that division is going to be real tight for a long time. going to be two of the top teams in the league duking it out for years taking turns winning the division.

04 Aug 2018 04:02:35
Well first off Mathews> Tavares I really don’t want to get into this but if you didn’t know you’ll see after this season.

Also Hedman>Kucherov>Stamkos.

I’ll do a more fair break down.

Mathews vs Kuch= Easily Mathews C>W plus age and Mathews is much better Defensively

Tavares vs Stamkos= Tavares is the better all around player but Stamkos is better offensively but with that being said Tavares never really had anyone to play with compared to Stamkos so you can debate Tavares is better also Stamkos is a Ghost come playoff time

Marner Vs Point Is this even a debate? Marner is so much more Dynamic but I guess Point is better defensively

Nylander vs JT Miller. Nylander=Point imo.

Kardri vs Tampa’s 3C?

Tor Offensive Depth>Tampa’s

Rielly=McDonagh

Hedman>>>>>>>>>> anyone in the Leafs dcore

Tampa’s defense is much better.

Vais>Anderson he’s the Russian Price.

Babcock>>> Cooper ( IMO )

Tampa’s the better team now but definitely not offensively.

04 Aug 2018 04:37:14
Tampa should be better offensively, defensively and in net. But it is tampa we are talking about and they were suppose to win the cup the last 3 or 4 years.

04 Aug 2018 06:34:21
VB while i understand your points your post is full of bias. Btw HERO charts are much more in favour of Kucherov defensively than Matthews. I know its not end all be all with their metrics but they have Matthews as a negative defensive player and Kuch positive. i'm not saying i believe matthews is a bad defensive player but i think he's probably not as good as you think and your really discrediting Kucherovs play. I understand Toronto added a huge piece in Tavares. Tampa also scored more than anyone last year and i think offense v offense could be closer than you think.

04 Aug 2018 06:39:12
Tampa is better than Toronto in every department, not debatable at all. Stamkos, Kucherov and Point are better than Matthews, Tavares and Marner easily. Hedman and McDonagh are far better than any Toronto defenseman including Reilly. Vasilevsky is better and more consistent than Anderson. Tampa no question.

04 Aug 2018 06:54:13
Also forgot to mention Sergachev who is also at worst equal to Reilly. Tampa is the superior team without question.

04 Aug 2018 07:11:42
JBS well I was not aware of that but still anyone would take Mathews over Kuch long term. Fair points tho also I feel like Tampa’s obviously close but they don’t have the ability to roll 3 equal lines. Like Toronto that’s my opinion obviously you can make an argument but as a Tampa fan who I believe has a strong general knowledge on the NHL you even have to admit this guy dosent have a clue about what he’s talking about.

Memarcusjoe- you have no idea what you’re talking about lol. You proposed Trouba for Zandina.

04 Aug 2018 07:17:10
VB wearing the TOR glasses and memarcusjoe spitting bs to mock leafs fans. jbs is def the closest in his evaluation.
Matthews is still overhyped, Kucherov is def the better player right now. Marner might be a little more dynamic offensively, but you guys should not take away too much from Point as well. He finished 8th in Selke voting in his sophomore season and quietly got mid 60 points along with that. Hard to find a better 2C.
Oh TBs 3C would prolly be Johnson then, don't think he's far behind Kadri if at all.
As for D, Hedman is easily the best D on both teams. Overall, TBs D is def better than Torontos, Rielly is a solid #1 guy as well, tho.
And as almost anyone said, Vasy > Andersen.

04 Aug 2018 07:27:29
Vbbb,
I've never proposed a Trouba trade on here. Sorry, you didn't like an objective evaluation of Tampa and Toronto.

04 Aug 2018 12:44:54
I’m biased, but here goes nothing:

Stamkos = Tavares (Always been like this for me, even before JT signed, they both are mature #1Cs with great talent)

Matthews Point (Points good, but I think Marner is a much greater offensive threat. Marner didn’t finish the year PPG because his first 30ish games had him struggle on a line w Bozak/ JVR, which just wasn’t working. He’s good for 80+ this year imo)

Nylander > Gourde (Nylanders more experienced and Nylander seems as if he can carry a line better than Gourde can)

Kadri >> Johnson (Kadri is probably the best 3C in the league, and Johnson ain't even close to a comparable. Kadri is a good defensive player; has scored 30+ in back2back years and plays with tenacity)

Hyman.

04 Aug 2018 14:36:06
If I’m not mistaken Johnson was Points RW not the 3C am I correct? So I feel like it’d be fairer to compare Johnson to Nylander. I really don’t get how you can possibly take Mathews over Kucherov I’m sorry especially not long term. Watch for a 40 goal 50 Assist breakout season for Mathews.

04 Aug 2018 14:37:19
Hyman.

04 Aug 2018 15:04:30
Vbb even if he does break out for 40 goal 50 assist season that still only 90 pts kucherov just had 100 lol.

04 Aug 2018 16:27:12
Additionally, my other part of the post was.

Kucherov>AM
PointHyman
Palat>>Marleau
Johnsson, Kappy, Ennis, Brown, Lindholm >> Callahan, Erne, Andreoff, Killorn and Paquette.

Defense;
Hedman>>Mo
McD =>Gardiner
Serf >> Zaitsev
Stralman > Hainsey
Covurn.

04 Aug 2018 16:51:50
@TSS: Marner had just 3 points more than Point while I don't think we need to argue whos better defensively. As I said, Marners offensive potential is higher but not by as much as you apparently think it is. Also not sure how you conclude TORs bottom 6 is >> Tampas. I'd actually argue that TBs bottom 6 is slightly better.
TB: Gourde, Killorn, Cirelli, Callahan + whoever two guys earn their spot out of Erne, Paquette, Conacher, Andreoff, Stephens, Joseph, etc.
TOR: Johnsson, Kapanen, Brown, Ennis, Lindholm, Leivo, Hyman

@VB: See what Habby2 said.

04 Aug 2018 17:47:33
Bias joe with the bs as the triplets mentioned and is madeindade even a Tampa fan or just looking to start sh*t? Tampa is the better team right now and have been for a while. Their defense is much better and maybe a slight edge in goal. Saying that Stamkos, Kucherov and Point are better than Matthews, Tavares and Marner easily is an exaggeration. Last year the Tampa trio were 1.05 PPG while the Leafs trio was 0.96. Not too far off considering Marner played on the 4th line for a while. The Leafs trio is younger by like 7 years as well. I’d give the edge in forward depth to Toronto but yes Tampa should be the better team again this year.

04 Aug 2018 17:59:24
@Triplets, my post is getting cut off someways, but as for the Marner thing, I think Marner really has 80ish point potential. He struggled immensely during the start of the year and was over PPG during the last 55+ games. Having him play with JT will help nonetheless as well.

And, for the bottom six, I was going off of the six worst forwards who will be in the starting twelve on the team.

Toronto; Hyman, Johnsson, Kapanen, Ennis, Brown, Lindholm
TB; Cirelli, Callahan, Killorn, Erne, Paquette, Johnson.

Cirelli and Kap wash, Killorn and Hyman wash, Lindholm/ Paquette wash. Johnsson/ Ennis/ Brown i'd take over Callahan/ Johnson/ Erne, evn if Johnson is the best player of the bunch.

04 Aug 2018 19:43:26
@triplets you forgot the back to back 30 goal scorer Kadri in the leafs bottom 6.

04 Aug 2018 20:21:32
Marner is better then Kucherov when they both were 21 hi think Marner has potential to get to the Kuch level statistically while Marner being the better play maker and Kucherov being the better scorer.

04 Aug 2018 21:16:10
Also Habby and Drais. Comparing Kuch to Mathews is like comparing Kane to Crosby. Yes Kane may out scoure Crosby but C>>>W.

04 Aug 2018 23:10:23
Yeah vbbb we know. But that whole center greater then everything else is a little overused. And before you or jim say something like how do you know montreal doesn't have a center or that's why montreal were bottom feeders last year. Just remember they made it to the conference finals with david freakin desharnais as there number 1 center. But yet the almighty matthews still hasn't got out of the 1st round lol. Yes I know that's the 3rd time I've mentioned that.

05 Aug 2018 01:06:45
Man this got out of hand fast. No debate both teams are very good and will continue to be for the near future. I think Kane v Crosby is a good comparison for matthews/ Kuch (except Matthews is not and likely never will be Crosby while Kuch is as good as Kane ever was) . Just hard to really compare but they are both excellent players. The original post also wasnt about individual player trade value it was overall level of team talent. Right now i'd take Kuch over Matthews, in 3 years who knows. Both teams have high end offensive talent and can roll 3 lines. Toronto probably has a slight edge. D leans Tampa imo but Torontos is much better than people on here give credit. Teams are close now with great systems and youth to remain that way for a long time barring anything unexpected.

05 Aug 2018 01:35:53
You really don’t like Matthews eh habby? He may not be almighty but he’s a pretty good player. I think you’d like him more if you stopped watching the habs and follow the leafs for a few years. It seems like you’re on the Tampa bandwagon instead though. That or you just want to argue with every leaf fan on here.

05 Aug 2018 04:55:50
I don't want to argue with every leaf fan just a select few . I actually like Matthews and know he's good but when people say stuff like he's the 2nd best defensive forward in the game I just throw up a little in my mouth and I have to try and bring them down to earth. leafs have a real good forward group but there is a slight edge to tampa IMO right now. Maybe not in a few years but who knows. defence is a landslide win for Tampa and so is goaltending.

05 Aug 2018 05:10:04
I don’t remember anyone saying he was the 2nd best defensive forward in the game but I’ll believe you. The way he strips players of the puck reminds me of “the magician”, Datsyuk. I’m not saying he’s anywhere near that level right now but he could be one day IMO. Anyways, Tampa is the better team on paper and have been for a while, who knows what will happen on the ice.

05 Aug 2018 05:28:49
Okay 1st of all I’d like to apologize I meant Malkin not Crosby my honest mistake. Mathews won’t be as good as Crosby.

Now Habby when did I ever flame the habs aside from Bergivan I wouldn’t say I’m a huge hab hater. Also Mathews has been in the year for two years. He stepped in the league as an 18 year old 1c for the last place team the season prior and carried the team on his back to a playoff birth. He brought them there once again in a injury plagued season. In two years he made the playoffs twice. That’s like you putting down McDavid for not making the playoffs it’s a team sport 1 player can’t do it all. I think you should watch Mirical on ice to teach you 1 player can’t win a championship.

05 Aug 2018 05:30:28
Vbb said he was the best defensive forward to come along since bergeron. I wonder what players like kopitar toews and about 30 others would have to say about that lol. but your right leafs17 we can only judge them on paper cause nobody knows what will happen. They may not even have to meet in the playoffs. Probably Vegas wins the cup this or Washington repeats eventhough the team they have now is nowhere near as good on paper as they were 3 an 4 years ago when they would choke in the playoffs every year.

05 Aug 2018 05:42:53
Vbb I never had an issue with your hab hating it was your extreme overvaluing of leaf players. you know like how great a defensive forward matthews is yet hasn't even come close to be considered for the selke. How your predicting marner will reach kucherov level yet he hasn't even come real close to ppg season yet. How matthews after two decent seasons is somehow comparible to jean beliveau. And how he is easily better then kucherov. I could go on and on but I think you get the point. Now be like bias jim and go make a childish ween bag post cause someone disagreed with you.

05 Aug 2018 05:57:29
Okay now when did I ever make a childish post why are you talking out of context like that. I said he’s one of the best young defensive forwards sense Bergeron and 20 year olds don’t run for the Selke we'll revisit that in 5 years. We'll revisit the Marner discussion in 4 years and I say the Béliveau comparison because I believe Mathews will be a much more dominant player then Gilmore and Sundin but we’ll visit that in 10 years but yah.

05 Aug 2018 06:32:47
For the record i'm with Leaf fans here because the initial post was so ridiculous. Wasnt really trying to argue with VB that original post was right just that leafs don't hands down beat the bolts offense. Are the leaf fans on here biased? Yes. So is literally everyone on here everyone is biased in favour of their teams at least most people here are willing to have a dialog and listen to the other side.

05 Aug 2018 08:16:13
@TSS: I agree that Marner has 80ish potential. Maybe even 90 in a perfect world. But if Point got 65 or so in his second year, why can't he get 70-75 in coming years. And I'm not sure whether I'd prefer 80 points + Marners D (not saying its bad but certainly not in the Selke convo) or 70 points and a top 5 Selke finish.

I was using the worst 6 F on each team as well. Debateable whether to include Johnson or Gourde, doesn't really make a big difference anyways.

And as jbs said, everyone is prolly a bit biased towards their team, but for me I'd say Cirelli > Kapanen, Killorn > Hyman, Lindholm = Paquette, and Johnson, Callahan, Erne/ Conacher def > Brown, Ennis, Johnsson.

It's all very close basically bringing me to what jbs said: TORs offence definitely doesn't beat TBs offence as easily as some Leafs fans seem to think. Both have 7-8 scoring threats easily and solid depth players.

@Leafs17: No, I didn't. As TSS said, we compared the 6 worst F on each team.

05 Aug 2018 13:48:55
@TT

Thats fair. We all have differencing opinions and its understandable. All I know for sure is that, as JBS said, Toronto vs. Tampa, no matter if Toronto upgrades their d or not, will be fun to watch. Both offenses are so loaded it’ll be exciting. And as for comparing Marner/ Point, since I watch Marner more, I just see so much upside that its hard for me to change my mind on him. ANd same with the bottom six argumenr, we both watch our respective teams more, so it makes sense we’d be slightly biased towards them. In all though, as I mentioned before, the Atlantic is going to be a fun division with Tampa, TORonto and Buffalo.

@JBS

Man yeah, the thread really went out to lunch, lol. I’d agree with you on that stance, that TOR’s offense is better by a slight margin, TBs defense is better by a wider margin, and goaltending is close to even. ANd thank you for saying it, TOs dcore isn't actually as bad as people make it out to be. Weren’t we like 12th in GA? that's pree good imo. Obviously not a top5 dcore, but if they are competent enough to eep the puck out of our net, i'm good with them.

05 Aug 2018 15:00:43
Ok vbb let's just wait 4 or 5 or 10 years before we crown them all legends then. That's all I've been trying to say since the start.

05 Aug 2018 17:33:20
Leafs I’m far from a Toronto fan I live in Miami and go for the panthers but I like reading all the crybaby Toronto fans on here so yes I started this so I could see y’all cry and it worked! Good job please keep commenting though all your excuses are funny.

05 Aug 2018 18:05:07
Everyone already knew just how crazy biased VB was. This post solidified any questions on that.

05 Aug 2018 18:37:22
I guess you have a lot to cheer about madeadouche28.

05 Aug 2018 19:17:06
Hey guys, we should act nice to @made.

He’s an endangered species, a Panther Fan. They’rr Rare to find in the wild and even rarer to find online. Shhhhhh. We should keep him happy.

05 Aug 2018 19:54:03
Topshelfslappers go ahead bro be nice to me! I live in Miami you probably live is some craphole canada I’ll take it! And leafsfan17 I was already cheering before you tards started posting.

05 Aug 2018 20:00:53
Where’s Jim? I’m so happy I’m not a leafs fan!

05 Aug 2018 20:33:17
craphole canada, that’s a good one. make america great again.

06 Aug 2018 03:50:30
Atleast I don’t think Lucic is a capable top 6 forward. That’s more biased then anything I said.

@yup.

06 Aug 2018 18:05:31
And there ya go again always reading and not understanding.
I've always said I would love to play Lucic in a third line role with Strome this season, but paying him what he's making that's not the best option. If we want him to succeed he need to play with Drai in a second line role and step up this season. So in saying that I hope to god he can step up again this season with at least 50 points.
He's certainly not an AHL player like you say tho.

So, read slowly, I think he would be best suited for a third line role. But I have to hope to god he can put up 50 points with Drai in a second line role.

06 Aug 2018 18:08:27
Anyways, I'm not crazy biased of every player on my team like you and the Leafs in this thread.

06 Aug 2018 20:19:03
Leafs offense top to bottom I’d say is better but tampa has some game breakers with more big game experience. Defense isn’t even close obviously and goaltending, personally think is pretty close.

I could realistically see both these teams winning multiple cups in the next handful of years and yet at the exact same time I wouldn’t be shocked if neither had a single one after 5 years. That’s the way it goes in a 31 team league. How many times has the best team on paper won the cup in the salary cap era?

Washington has been the best team on paper and throughout the regular season for 5 or 6 years now and never won the cup. Then this year they are down 2 games to none on the road in the first round, go to double OT in game 3 and CBJ hits the post before caps score. That would have most likely sealed their fate yet again.

That’s how narrow the margin of error is in the league and so I wouldn’t guarantee any cups for any team. In saying that, if I was to handicap teams of who I feel have the best chance to win multiple cups, both these teams would be on a pretty short list.

06 Aug 2018 20:21:45
But yup you don't understand it's much more possible for marner to have a 100 point season then lucic to get 50 because lucic has only hit 50 points 5 times before in his career while marner has hit 100.wait oh yeah! Lol.

06 Aug 2018 21:43:00
Marner will score 75 next year I’m calling it right now. I said he could potentially reach the Kane/ Kucherov potential.

07 Aug 2018 00:47:04
Yeah I could see him scoring 75 that's not a stretch at all.

07 Aug 2018 05:08:15
I also like how 40 goals at 19 years old and 34 (62 games, 44 goal pace) at 20 years old are ‘decent years’ lol if those are ‘decent years’ than no kid but mcdavid has had ‘good years’ in the last 10. Even Laines years must be just ok lol come on. If kotkaniemi only puts up 75 goals and 150 pts through 2 seasons, I’m sure you wouldn’t think that’s better than decent, right?

07 Aug 2018 05:43:25
Of course I would think it's better just like you would say matthews 2 season were better cause of some lameo reason like he hates to lose more then anybody else lol.

07 Aug 2018 13:55:59
Actually you said he wasn’t competitive. I said look when he loses, he hates to lose and is a very competitive guy.

You might not recognize that because since Weber/ Drouin/ shaw etc have been there, they haven’t won enough games to have expectations. It’s easy not to look disappointed if you don’t think you’re going to win from the start.

Like Ryan Oreilly in buffalo saying he has become comfortable losing. It’s all circumstance.

07 Aug 2018 15:19:47
Your incredible man. I didn't say he wasn't competitive you said he was the most competitive you ever saw or something like that I just asked why you consider him more competitive then a guy like marner who actually showed up in the playoffs. Also marner didn't have to get babcock to come over to his house for a sleep over this summer and assure him everything will be ok. Lol.

07 Aug 2018 20:42:51
Thank you all for a great read over my lunch break.
To be honest, not much surprised me, but can't believe the depth of prospects between the two teams.
Lets refuel the fire and get this going again shall we?
P. S. leave my team out of this, we're sh! t, lol. But that DD comment did make me laugh.

08 Aug 2018 00:29:58
Lets not start comparing off ice issues with habs and leafs lol subbans fights with coaches and management. Then galchenyuks, now apparently Paccioretty.

And those are just the premier guys. Other smaller ones in between like smith pelley who they made The scapegoat and shipped him out when both him and galchenyuk apparently were involved in a fight where galchenyuk ended up being beat up by his girlfriend.

If Matthews, because of this disagreement with Babcock, gets traded for someone far older and tired like subban was, or someone far less talented like galchenyuk was, and then it happens twice more with different players, I’ll take that point as valid lol.

08 Aug 2018 05:58:03
Yes cause the leafs have just been a perfectly ran organization over the years lol. You do realize the leafs had a franchise before the 16-17 season right?

08 Aug 2018 14:25:52
You brought up Matthews/ Babcock meeting. That’s recent. That’s this core and this management team. Everythig I just said was with habs core since their current management team took over.

But you win Habby lol leafs are a mess. Matthews isn’t a top centre. Our goaltending sucks. And we should look to Montreal for the key to success because your analysis of players is gospel. I mean who could have predicted when we argued over patches last year that he wasn’t worth a roster player, top prospect and first? No one ever could have said he was just a good complimentary player that wouldn’t get a huge return, right? That would be impossible to predict. So when you were so right about that, I should have just agreed with you right away on the Matthews thing. I apologize. You win.

08 Aug 2018 15:21:38
See how this works when a habs fan talks about how much better their franchise has been compared to the leafs franchise it usually the leaf fan that tells them to stop living in the past nice to see it changing around lol. Sort of like how when discussing matthews his value is inflated because of his lesser line mates. but when pacioretty can score 30+ goals every year on a line with desharnais it means nothing. And in some way it makes him worse lol. I find it hard to keep up with your change in opinion jim. lol.

03 Aug 2018 15:56:55
Ottawa signs Stone to a one year deal and he's now a UFA after next season. got to be Stones request for a one year deal then to get the F outa there. Can't blame him.
He will be a solid rental for a playoff team coming up. Or a sign and trade.

Agree4 Disagree3

03 Aug 2018 20:43:53
Agree. Karlsson, Duchene and Stone now all IFA the same day. Karlsson I think is 100% gone. Stone I’d say 75-80% sure he’s gone and Duchene maybe 50/ 50 only because he’s an Ontario kid, was excited to go there. But he will be very overpaid if he stays i'm sure.

03 Aug 2018 23:54:41
I think if Stone gets paid what he deserves or better (around his salary next season 7.35) he has a decent chance at staying. He’s young enough to be a good player when the core of the team is competitive. Has a good chance of getting the C as well. With what Karlson and Duchene bring back Ottawa can have a good young team in a few years.

04 Aug 2018 00:12:34
Go Bobby Ryan, Gaborik and Cici!

I also heard a rumor but I don't think it's true, That Vic was awarded $4.35M by arbritration and the Sens wanted to decline it and he would become an UFA. LOL if that becomes true. What a mess they are, it's unreal this last calendar year there.

 


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