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24 Jan 2023 16:19:22
Toronto Trades
McMann
Holl
Woll (AHL)
1st Round Pick 2023
2nd Round Pick 2024

Vancouver Trades
Kuzmenko
LSchenn

With Kuzmenko and LSchenn both being UFAs after this season The Canucks in this proposal get future assets, and could like any Team resign both of them back after this season ends.

Leafs all in improve upfront and on Defense making a trade like this without having any Cap issues adding both Kuzmenko and LSchenn.


Thoughts ?

Agree7 Disagree24

24 Jan 2023 16:52:53
not much value coming back to Canucks.

24 Jan 2023 17:11:47
Trade Breakdown.

Kuzmenko - McMann, Woll, 1st Rounder
LSchenn - Holl, 2nd Rounder

Like I stated in my proposal because Kuzmenko and LSchenn are UFAs after this season, this is about right value wise from The Leafs or any team looking to add these 2 players imo.

24 Jan 2023 18:34:25
PINBALL: UFA’s, in a cap world, have MORE value than players WITH term left.

You are implying because they are UFAs they are worth less. That isn’t how it works.

24 Jan 2023 19:34:41
Again. I doubt Holl waives his trade clause to go to a non contending team. Kuzmenko alone is likely going to fetch a 1st, a decent to good prospect, and likely another draft pick. His cap hit is under a million. So any contending team that has limited cap space will likely be in on him. He's a great secondary scoring option. We watched Chiariot fetch a 1st last year so I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Schenn gets one this year. Woll has been great at the AHL level but the goalie market is not great this year so he doesn't hold a tonne of value. Rather the Leafs hold onto him in the event Murray or Samsonov get hurt. McMann doesn't carry a tonne of value either. Id love to see the Leafs get Schenn, but I bet the asking price is ridiculous for him.

24 Jan 2023 20:08:42
Chickenfoot
Players that have term not UFAs have more value especially if a team is trading a 1st Round Pick, Dubas in general doesn't like trading for a player on an expiring contract as they can walk after that season.
I really don't understand your logic in what you said.

25 Jan 2023 01:51:58
PINBALL: in a capped out league it’s a fact. Teams that want to add for a playoff run, who are up against the cap in the current year (most of the league), prefer to add UFAs because they can usually get some cap retention for the current year, and their cap obligations don’t go into the next season.

Since you singularly view the league through a leaf lens, and a leaf lens alone, let me explain it in a way that may make sense to you.

- Dubas overspent on his core 4, allocating half his cap to 4 players.
- This left the other half of his cap to fill in an NHL roster.
- This meant he could never finish the leaf rebuild, and every year it’s a scramble to fill in the roster with league minimum players, while losing key pieces year after year.

Next year Bunting is the guy most likely to be the latest Hyman. So, if Dubas can add a piece or two for a playoff run this year, and do it on a UFA so that he doesn’t wreck his slim chance of re-signing Bunting the next year, then there’s real value to going the UFA route.

I’m surprised in some ways that this is news to you, but in some ways I’m not at all surprised. Either way, trust me, it’s a thing?.

25 Jan 2023 11:56:11
UFA’s don’t have more value. They’re easier to trade for and depending on the cap implications might make more sense. Goodrow and Coleman aren’t getting 1st+ from Tampa if there UFA’s.

25 Jan 2023 13:26:22
That's debatable Ebsolutely. All depends on the quality of the UFA and if the team trading is already stocked with prospects or if they are tight on the cap.

25 Jan 2023 14:32:39
EBS:

- to a team that is capped out, who is also capped out the next year, adding a UFA is far more desirable than adding someone with term.

- you mentioned the examples of Goodrow & Coleman, and that Tampa wouldn't trade a 1st for them. TAM traded a 1st & a prospect for each of them in 2020.

- TAM is unlikely to trade for either once again because they both have term left on their deals, and TAM is unlikely to be able to add anyone with term given their cap situation.

- TAM knows how to take care of business better than most, and you can bet they'll be adding UFA's given their cap situation in the coming years.

- it's been widely reported that TAM is likely to reacquire pending UFA Luke Schenn.

I thought it was widely understood why capped-out teams favour adding UFA's over players with term?

TAM is an excellent example of why economics and cap issues often supercede the old notion of trading for term. In a capped out NHL, when making NHL Trade Deadline Deals, it just makes sense.

25 Jan 2023 17:17:09
I agree UFA’s are likely the trade target for contenders but that doesn’t mean they have more value. Tampa traded for those guys when they still had a full year left on there contracts.

25 Jan 2023 18:19:34
EBS, for a team up against the cap in the current and subsequent years, a pending UFA is more valuable than a trade target with term, period.

25 Jan 2023 19:00:39
It’s crazy how wild this guys takes are. UFAs are easier to fit in to a teams cap structure and are traded more because teams that know they aren’t contending will try to make value out of 1 year contracts instead of losing them for nothing. Obviously you’d rather have a low interest rate locked in at a longer term then chance it to the market. That’s the same way teams view players. Having a 1 year contract on a good player means there is a possibility of him walking. Now imagine if you had the possibility of losing your house is you weren’t willing to accept a 15% interest rate. I don’t know how I can simplify this more for you but I’ll reiterate that there are more UFAs then players with term traded because teams can fit them into their structure easier with retention/ LTIR/ Etc + the willingness for other teams to trade those UFAs. This isn’t an opinion this is a fact. Trying to argue this is flat earth belief esque.

Would you rather have McDavid for on a 1 year contract or 8 year contract in a trade? Obviously 8 years and on top of that contract signed earlier are at a better value due to accumulated inflation. ( I’m assuming you don’t know what that means but it means that when a deal is made let’s say in 2026 when the cap is at 90 million it will be worth less ( better bargain ) then it is in 2030 when the cap is 100 million.

This is logic vs dreamland talk. Queue the cold angry response with tons of unfactual and baseless claims. You know you lost an argument when you throw insults.

27 Jan 2023 18:56:07
My favourite part of this was how you refer to my “wild takes”, and then go into a rant about interest rates.

The “flat earth-esque” insult was nice, and pairs nicely with the insults at the end, with a finish of “you know you lost the argument when you throw insults “.

Wow…now THAT is one hot mess…and a great example of being hilarious without trying.

Wow….







 

 

 
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