26 Feb 2024 15:36:29
Sharks Trade
Rutta*
Leafs Trade
Timmons
Grebyonkin (KHL)
3rd Round Pick 2024 (NYI Pick)
*SJ retains 50% of Rutta's remaining 2 years of his contract.
Sharks are rebuilding and this is exactly what teams like SJ do.
Toronto is getting a pretty good RHanded Shooting Defenceman that plays a solid defensive game.
So who today is going to spin it that Rutta is the next best Defenceman in the NHL and SJ would never accept a deal like this ?
Thoughts ?
26 Feb 2024 18:18:34
It's definitely there value wise I think. Once one of the top dmen available for trade get traded it will help to gauge what the ones below will garner in return. Again though I think we should let it ride out this year and regroup in the offseason. See where our prospects/ depth players are at, grab another 1st round prospect this year, and see what FA has to offer. Best case scenario is we stay hot and can carry the play into the playoffs and maybe go on a run.
26 Feb 2024 18:58:05
- "Grebenkin" is an unsigned draft pick from 2022, so if SJ really wanted him, they or any other NHL team can sign him as a Free Agent this summer when he's no longer your team's property. He has zero value in trade.
- Timmins is out indefinitely with "mono".
- So your trade for Rutta comes down to a 3rd. AND SJ retains for 2 years?
Get real Pinball. stop wasting everyone's time with these ridiculous homer trades of yours. They're getting worse, and that's saying something.
It isn't "spin" when someone disagrees with you Pinball, just like it isn't "leaf bias" when someone disagrees with your one-sided trades.
26 Feb 2024 20:11:22
Chickenfoot
Grebyonkin's KHL contract ends after this season not The Leaf rights.
Please at least post facts not what comes out of your own head.
Yes you are spinning this because it's a Leaf trade.
26 Feb 2024 20:34:54
Rutta is a 5/ 6 dman on most teams. But to retain for 2 years the Leafs would need to add.
26 Feb 2024 20:35:04
Also Chickenfoot if a player plays in The KHL which Grebyonkin does Toronto's rights are indefinite, other European Leagues its 4 years.
Grebyonkin was drafted in 2022 so even if he wasn't playing in The KHL which he is Toronto would still have 2 years of rights to Grebyonkin.
Again I hope I have educated you so you stop putting your Chickenfoot in your mouth.
27 Feb 2024 01:26:44
Yah I was pretty positive we owned his rights for at least another year. He is having a pretty good season in the KHL. Take out the retention and I can see SJ being interested. Timmins gives them a younger right shot dman going forward. Not sure if you can trade players who are on the LTIR, SJ would have to see him as someone they can use next season. Grebyonkin is a low risk, mid return player for SJ. From scouting reports I've read he's a bigger body at 6'2 and is primarily a pass first kind of player with pretty good foot speed. SJ is years away from being in the playoff hunt and with Rutta's age he's expendable for SJ.
Everything will come down to what Tanev gets traded for as he's the top RHD that's likely to get traded and will determine what market value is for the players below him.
27 Feb 2024 04:26:17
PINBALL & MG: you are correct about the KHL transfer agreement. GOOD FOR YOU PINBALL! ?. (I’ve never seen you own when you’ve been wrong about anything, but I have no issue with it. )
It’s still a ridiculous trade, and the reality of the trade deadline returns will likely come as a shock for you. Generally teams aren’t looking to add guys with mono at the deadline.
27 Feb 2024 08:57:03
Lol no most teams aren't, but mono isn't forever and the Sharks can afford to wait for his return. It's not outrageous to think that this could land Rutta though. Timmins likely is a regular in SJ's lineup once the mono passes, Grebyonkin gives them a decent prospect, and a 3rd is a 3rd. Get rid of the retention all together from SJ as that does likely make that pick a higher pick because of it.
It will all come down to what Tanev gets as that will set the market for RHD defensive dmen, Grier's interest in Grebyonkin and whether he thinks he ever makes is way across the pond to play in North America. For comparison Grebyonkin's stats in the KHL are better than what Panarin's were at the same age. Whether they can translate to North American hockey and the smaller ice is the question mark.
27 Feb 2024 13:01:36
Chickenfoot
I will always own up to being wrong, what I post is strictly my opinions on Trades.
I will respond if I feel someone else is wrong about certain players.
For example in this proposal SJ is rebuilding and a player like Rutta would be moved to get future assets, Timmons, Grebyonkin and a 3rd are future assets, as for the retention Rutta has a $2,750.000 cap hit for this season and next which means SJ will be on the hook for only $1,375.00 for 2 seasons cap wise which isn't huge for a team rebuilding.
27 Feb 2024 13:58:52
PINBALL: I would agree that 1.375M isn't much for a rebuilding team, but I just don't see any incentive to SJ to make this trade as proposed.
The 3rd can be seen as compensation for retention, but I just don't see SJ seeing either Grebyonkin or Timmins as an enticing package. If they move Rutta it will be for a better package than this in my humble opinion.
For what it's worth, I haven't seen you acknowledge when you were wrong, ever. You didn't see me taking a lap when I bulls-eyed the Monahan trade, etc., nor do I have any issue accepting when I've gotten it wrong. Full kudos to you on this one. I think the reality of the trade deadline trades and returns will be a big surprise to you.
MG: agreed that Timmins' mono isn't forever, and that SJ can afford to play the long game, I just don't see why they'd be enticed to make this trade? They'll be looking for high picks or prospects with upside.
27 Feb 2024 14:58:18
@Chickenfoot Grebyonkin could be looked at as a potential mid/ high level prospect. Key word is obviously potential. Like I said at the same age as Panarin he has more points in the KHL. That's a very promising thing going for him and shows that the potential is there. Whether that potential is ever reached is a complete unknown, like it is with any prospect.
End of the day Grier would have to be pretty high on that potential. Could they get better offers? For sure. Could an offer like this be enough to entice him to pull the trigger? For sure. All comes back to whatever Tanev gets dealt for will set the market for that level and the level below IMO. Should be interesting and I still hold the preference of the Leafs making zero moves and going with the group they have right now. They're hot right now with some ugly wins, but playing good hockey for the back half of the season.
27 Feb 2024 18:25:58
I hear what you're saying MG, and as usual, you make a lot of sense.
Every team needs to have guys playing and contributing on cheap ELC contracts, and this is especially true in Toronto where fewer draft picks have left fewer prospects to fill roster gaps.
My thinking is that if Grebyonkin was any good that he'd already be playing somewhere in the leafs' system, and be under contract.
Rebuilding teams are willing to take on cap if it boosts picks and prospects for a rebuild. I just don't see this package as enticing to SJ. Trade capital is something the leafs are short of at this deadline, and it will be very challenging for Treliving to not trade the two 1st picks he has in the next 3 years to address his deadline needs.
27 Feb 2024 19:23:57
@Chickenfoot I think it's more they are letting him honour his contract before making a push for him to come to North America. I think the potential is there. He's got 19G, 22A, and 41P in 67 games in what some consider the 2nd best league in the world playing; and is only 20 years old. Everything you would ideally want in a prospect. With any player though that comes from over sees it's always will they be able to adjust to the smaller ice surface and the different style of play. From everything I've read he has the offensive skills to be an NHLer, his defensive game needs improvement.
27 Feb 2024 21:44:10
I respect your point of view MG, and I will definitely be interested to see how this kid progresses.
As an unsigned Russian, and all that goes with being a Russian prospect in this day and age, I don’t see him or Timmins as meaningful trade chips that are going to move the needle much for a rebuilding team like SJ. Time will tell the truth I guess, as it always does?.
28 Feb 2024 12:10:36
For sure. A lot of unknowns for sure. Apparently the Leafs are looking at signing him to his ELC. Grier would have to be high on the potential and think that he'd sign with them.
The potential for a busy deadline is there, also potential for it to be a snooze fest. Hopefully lots of action.
28 Feb 2024 17:20:39
MG: I'm leaning more towards the deadline being "sleepier" than usual. It's not breaking news to say it's a capped out league, and I think there will be more teams than usual sit it out, or make smaller moves.
In the long run I think your man Treliving is wise to take a stand and not trade either of his first round picks. Unless you think you're a move or two away, keep your powder dry. It's tough when you're not drafting enough because your roster gets too expensive too fast when you don't have meaningful contributions from players on ELC's.